what cycle does this engine use?

Discussion on Stirling or "hot air" engines (all types)
fullofhotair
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:28 am

what cycle does this engine use?

Post by fullofhotair » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:48 pm

http://manson-ericsson-hae.blogspot.com/p/ma.html

What cycle does this heat engine use? Its not stirling because its an open system. They call it a mason ericsson engine. If its an ericsson cycle where is the compressed air tank. Its just a cold and hot cylinder. It has two power strokes ,expansion then a contraction on the cold side.

Ian S C
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Location: New Zealand

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by Ian S C » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:22 am

Don't know the cycle, but has someone built and run a prototype, theory's are ok "but", it's useless if it's not converted to metal. Ian S C

fullofhotair
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Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by fullofhotair » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:18 am

Ian SC
Here are Two built engines. The people that have made these engines are generally impressed with it ,but see room for improvements. It has really high torch for a hot air engine, but low rpm. Bladeatilla, the guy who made that powerful free piston stirling with the bellows power piston is working on a mason ericsson hybrid. The Utube example I posted is from his buddies sight. It also uses an accordion power piston plus a displacer,made of steel wool. Its not a free piston stirling because he shows you the exhaust ports. This must be an entirely new cycle . The brayton cycle doesn’t have the double power strokes.
http://www.geocities.ws/kenboak/Manson1.html

fullofhotair
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Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by fullofhotair » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:36 pm

Here is a few more models. The basic engine design has only one moving part, the connected power piston ,displacer and shaft . They have got the rpms up to 1000.
http://www.geocities.ws/kenboak/Manson.html

bladeattila
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Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:25 pm

Hi everyone!
Some confusion must disband.
I start to develope the Manson engine 3 and half years ago because I can't believe this construction is an impasse.
If you need some information from this type engine then the internet is'nt show anything, just some old pictures and one man,
who start to make a cooled displacer for the inward air also the Rupp design.
(The Rupp design is a cold side ventillation engine, but small, pretty fast for cabinet modeller):)
The cold side ventillation is good, if we can use some regenerator in the engine. Displacer cylinder, or other not moving part.
So, nobody developed this engine, but this engine is one of the highest torque hot air engine, but if we can build it bigger then start to slow down!
BUT
The last 50 years Andy Ross, and other big names of Stirlings developed lot of things for that engines, why don't use for this engine?
On my blog I showed the P/V diagramm of Stirling and Manson cycle. As you can see, there is a big different of areas. 4 corners more!

Anyway...
I start to think about different. I need to correct "errors".
What's are there?
No regeneration. Big dead volume. Exhaust gas. No pressurising. Not good heat exchange. etc.

In my first engine 3 and half years ago I used hot air ventillation also regenerator and preheating. I'm not shure but this engine has 3 big different of the original Manson, so it is not Manson type...I think. But I called it Manson yet.
My friend Simi112 made lot of cold side ventillation Manson with regenerator, but somehow that engines not works better as mine...it was the first suprise for me, and I thought about the problems, and solutions.
So, month after month I built bigger and stronger, but I didn't find any new solutions...just if I develope this engine.
And I started to make lot of plans and drawings.
I need to share these on my blog week by week.
If somebody has time and money for a stainless/graphite version of my first engine than just start to make it! :)
I'm interest what will be the conclusion if the engine has professional "body".

The Manson/Ericson engine what i called that is my third idea, and there is a compression tank, preheating, hot side ventillation, and two power stroke!!! but the dead volume is same as original type engine. The compression tank has two functions. In the first power stroke compress the air, under the second power stroke the tank has lower pressure and it is working on as double acting system. This engine has biggest torque, higher RPM and open, but closed air loop.

After I developed the no dead volume version with new crank system. Low friction as like Beta Stirling. The construction is pretty same, but the cycle is Manson or something nearly.
My last engine what I developed was a double acting engine where the 1. engine breathing in the second one. So the 1. engine's gas on higher pressure going to the 2. engine's lower pressure cylinder when the valve is open automatically! Ventillation is on the cold side, and ther is in regenerator, also no dead volume.
What do you think about this engine's cycle?
Somewhere between Manson and Ericsson...or not?

It was a long essay, but I think it was the minimum information from these engine what I can show there on my blog later.
I haven't got enough money for patents and patience for the long procedures.
But I want my name connected with it somehow...than I thought about a blog.
Probobly somebody has enough time and money for a professional version...I hope then He will use the Kovács name for this type engines. :)

If you have any question just send an e-mail to me, or later I try to come back for an answer here.

See you soon!
Greetings from Hungary!
Blade
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

fullofhotair
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Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by fullofhotair » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:21 pm

Bladeatilla,
I know your trying to develope interest in the mason engine or mason engine hybrid. I believe it has alot of potential. Do you have any videos of any mason engine you could post? My dream is that you make a tutorial on the mason engine like you did on the free piston stirling. When I build it I will call it the Kovac engine and encourage others to do the same. I keep checking for any progess on your blog . The more people see this engine the greater the interest in it. Most people just think it is a stirling engine.

bladeattila
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Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:02 pm

I haven't got enough time actually for the blog, but I try to update it.
I'd like to update some shematic drawings and then it will be clear for everybody it is not a Stirling cycle engine.
But if somebody watched the original Manson then that GIF showed everything. And I wrote there lot of information. Open cycle...bla-bla-bla
Successive steps result the Kovács engine has lot of different in.
I need to make a tutorial for my first designed hot side ventillation beer can engine in the next month.
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

fullofhotair
Posts: 265
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Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by fullofhotair » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:37 am

Bladeattila,
The mason engine almost died in obscurity. There isn't much on it , other than what you have posted. Its just so elegant in its simplicity. A good working model will be a lot more complex but that will be interesting also.

bladeattila
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Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:35 am

I uploaded my GIF animated concept onto my blog from a no dead volume, cold side ventillation Beta type Manson engine with new crank. It possible to make with hot side ventillation too, also with the original ventillation.
Long time to draw these concepts, so please be patient.
http://manson-ericsson-hae.blogspot.hu
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

bladeattila
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Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:25 am

Hi everyone!
New pages uploaded on my blog!
Kovács Caloric engine, Big volume Ringbom Twice-double acting Stirling engine concept, Manson (closed cycle) double acting with exhaust gas recycling!!!
I need some feedback, and consultation here, if you have any ideas for these constructions!
Thanks!
Blade
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

bladeattila
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:31 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:08 am

Hi guys!
I made an animated GIF from my new caloric engine. (Manson/Ericsson hybrid)
http://manson-ericsson-hae.blogspot.hu/ ... loric.html
What do you think about this engine's P-V diagram?
Is anybody interested in this topic?
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

Ian S C
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Location: New Zealand

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by Ian S C » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:26 am

I'm waiting for some metal to be cut, a working prototype is much better than drawings, even if the first two or three motors struggle to do much, you can sort the problems, and see if its worth expending time and money on further development. I'v built about 17 motors, they are improving. Ian S C

bladeattila
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Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:51 am

I understand, but I haven't got enough money yet for a good quality KCE model. My next big project will be a closed cycle Manson actually.
I start to build it 22 of Nov. so I am active, just the KCE will be soon. I hope somebody will faster than me.
Also I hope I am not the only one who thinking about new variations, methods, engines and I need to talking about these engines with somebody.
For example: Who knows the ratio of the intercooled section compression/volume in Ericsson caloric engine? or lot of similar questions.
I know a model can take me closer step by step to the solution but if somebody has any information that could help me then please send me an e-mail.
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

vamoose
Posts: 275
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Location: Australia

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by vamoose » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:43 am

Yep,
Your stuff has got my interest blade.
I was doing a bit of searching the other day after reading your posts.
am brewing up a few thoughts and questions on the subject, but am easily distracted (very easily :eyeroll: )
I don't really think i can help out much, but these engines do catch my interest.
Hopefully i'll do a better post soon.
cheers..

vamoose

fullofhotair
Posts: 265
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:28 am

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by fullofhotair » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:17 am

Bladeattila
I found a few things that might help you. The first is John Ericsson's British patent number.(6409/1833 ) I believe with that ,you should be able to get the full patent with plans.
The second is a patent for an Ericsson cycle engine with a lot of details.
http://www.google.com/patents/US3009315

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