what cycle does this engine use?

Discussion on Stirling or "hot air" engines (all types)
bladeattila
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:31 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:30 am

The first patent is a Bryton cycle, that is not important. I need the 1953 patent from Ericsson cycle engine's parameters.
I can't found it.

But my cycle has some different things in.
My engine has a vacuum power stroke, and the inlet (also the exhaust) are not same like Ericsson.
The Ericsson work with pressurised gas, but the area in the hot side is not underpressure, only normal.
And the Ericsson exhaust just a simple exhaust to the outside (normal pressure) also open cycle so it is not recycled.
My engine's exhaust is going to an underpressure area.
it can help the speedy gas exchange across the tube regenerator.
And closed cycle.

My opinion: This is a new cycle, but I'm not pretty shure what!?
[BBvideo 425,350][/BBvideo]
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

Ian S C
Posts: 2221
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by Ian S C » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:26 am

You do realise that an ordinary Stirling Engine has a pressure stroke, and a suction stroke.
Is your engine pressurised? Is the gray (I think) line above the crankshaft joining the two vertical blue lines indicate the sealed end of the crankcase?
Why pump hot air into the cold space. Finally how is the motor cooled, this is at least as important as the heating? Ian S C

bladeattila
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:31 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:41 am

First.
Do you know and understand the Ericsson also the Manson cycle/engines?
I knew the ordinary stirling has two power stroke, but this is not a Stirling engine. :)
I showed on my blog these engines working method because my engine is a hybrid of these two engines.


The grey piston closed the engine on the top also connected to the crankshaft and move together with the power piston.
The diameter of this grey piston a little bit bigger than the power piston.
The engine isn't pump hot air to the cold space, because there is a regenerator tube.
The top space is intercooled. It can help the precompression also help to create higher vacuum over the power piston.

The blue color what I used always indicate the cooled sections, and the red is the hot.
The engine is sealed of course.

The system bottom parts are works nearly like a normal Manson engine, but the different is, the gas pressure in the space over the piston.
The top space's pressure always can help for the power piston, and it can help for the gas exchange (exhaust or inlet) speed.

If a hot air engine can breathe in high pressure (dense) cold air then that will be stronger. (The Ericsson used it in an intercooled separeted space)
The preheater/regenerator add more speed for the heat exchange, also increase the efficient. (The Ericsson used it.)
My engines working in the stroke's second round too as like a negative Ericsson cycle.
But I never heard it before.
The Manson cycle's P-V diagram is nearly angular, the Ericsson's is a elongated paralelogramm, the Stirling's is an oval.
The biggest surface is the best efficient.
What do you think about these non ideal surfaces ratios?

The Ericsson caloric engine was the best nonpressurised thermodinamical engine. The Stirling never stepped closer only with the high pressurised constructions. The Manson is a stepchild of the hot air engines palette.

So, my new engine is a weird engine I think, but if I look it as a thermodinamical engine, then I think it will works well.

I hope everybody understand my broken English!
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

vamoose
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:16 am
Location: Australia

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by vamoose » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:55 am

Hey blade, fullofhotair, Ian and anyone interested

I must state clearly, that I don't claim to know much about these engines, but find some of this stuff is very interesting and worth further investigation!! (imo)
(I do have some further questions but will leave it for later)

Here is some stuff that i've come across related to this engine, hopefully it is of some use.
I've included images and gif's etc, from the links, because they're kinda cool!!


[hr]
http://www.massmind.org/techref/member/ ... anson.html

[hr]
http://www.geocities.ws/kenboak/Manson1.html

Image
Image

[hr]
http://www.geocities.ws/kenboak/Manson2.html

Image

[hr]
http://www.exergia.de/wordpress/2011/08 ... on-engine/

Image

Image
[hr]
Manson engine article

Image

Image

[hr]

http://scienzalaterale.blogspot.com.au/ ... iston.html
(use google translate)

Free piston manson engine gif's!
(some with regenerator)
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

[hr]
http://www.heatenginescience.blogspot.com.au/
ImageImageImageImageImage

[hr]
I would like to suggest, in a loose way, that the manson engine is the inverse operation of a flame licker (vacuum engine)

Image
Image
Image
[hr]

some videos

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[hr]
???
vamoose :razz: :question) :!: ImageImage

bladeattila
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:31 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by bladeattila » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:40 am

Dear Vamoose,
This blog is really interesting!
I wrote to him an e-mail...we will see...I hope he will answer to me something.

The videos are good, but I knew those, and I know Pall Arpad, he is my friend from Transylvania.
The flame licker is not an inverse Manson, because the Manson has two power stroke, the flame licker has only one.
But my opinion is a good flame licker working with an overdrived piston after closed the valve.
So after hot gas suction the power piston move in same direction yet and make a little underpressure when the hot gas can drop the temperature and after start the real negative power stroke. And the valve is open before the rest gas start to compress.
The flames of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.

vamoose
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:16 am
Location: Australia

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by vamoose » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:47 pm

Yea, i see what your saying Blade.
I guess in a loose way i meant,

hot air in, cooler air and power out..
as opposed to the inverse-
cool air in, warmer air and power out..

But that is definitely too simplistic a comparison
Your right- the flame of ignorance doesn't hurt when you burn.. :wink: much
[hr]
OK, this is not the manson engine, but,
Came across this description of the ericsson caloric engine process on a steam engine blog, sourced from a 1912 thermodynamics book..
which i found interesting and maybe others will also..

Image

came from here Applied Thermodynamics, there's also other cool stuff :cool:

vamoose

cbstirling2
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: what cycle does this engine use?

Post by cbstirling2 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:19 am

Looking at Blade's designs, it's more than just a Manson engine with a gamma or beta layout.
3 years later, how did the prototypes function?
CBStirling2

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