High powered Stirling going into production

Discussion on Stirling or "hot air" engines (all types)
tentstovenerd
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:31 pm

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby tentstovenerd » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:02 am

So in western country.
You have plenty of wood
expensive on gas.
Stirling on wood stove must have market.

The other post of Swedish stirling, hot end is even 1000C.
It is heated by gas
efficiency is 20%.
In wood stove, the temp. must be under 300C.
(300+273)/(1000+273)X0.20=9%
The wood stove top Stirling engine will have an efficiency of 9%
Am I right.

Swedish does not mention price of his engine.
May be 9% efficiency can never recover cost of the engine itsself.

Swedish web site is still alive
But not any word here from Swedish since 2014.
Can I assume his project died.

Nabe
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:22 am

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby Nabe » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:37 am

Don't know where you are but wood can and does reach the temperatures required and I think Inresol started another thread in 2015 and are still in business, anybody else have an input here?

Ian S C
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby Ian S C » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:54 am

An unpressurized engine at less that 600*C would be unlikely to excede 5% efficiency, but the idea is that with cheap fuel you just increase the size of the motor to obtain the required power. In the late 19th early 20th century, about 1 ton per horse power was ok, and smaller motors were sometimes quoted as one, or two man power, and while a motor could say pump water at the rare a man could, it could keep doing it all day, and the man could be off doing something else.
Ian S C

Crazyguy
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:39 am
Location: USA

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby Crazyguy » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:13 am

The only engine i have seen that is commercially viable is the big sunpulse. But I'm just a novice and not an expert.

stedevil
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:39 pm

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby stedevil » Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:43 am

critic wrote:They are avoiding technical details


As is common practice before you have all the relevant patents in place for the new things you invented to use in combination with old technology.

they did not explain the necessity to buy batterries


Nor should they, as extra batteries are not a necessity at all. The base unit comes with 1 battery included and if using it for what it was primarily designed for, i.e. an environmental friendly replacement for a mobile diesel power generator, you don't need more batteries, since you only run it when you run the equipment needing the energy...

When using it in an alternative way, eg as a CHP unit for an on grid domestic home, you have the option of feeding the surplus energy back onto the local power grid and thus again, don't need any extra batteries.

When you do need extra batteries is for OFF grid homes and if you can't or don't want to sell your power back to the grid. Do also note that your "extra batteries" could be your electrical car parked outside your home.

, they did not explained why efficiency is only 20%


For starters, the electric efficiency is 22-30%, and usually at the higher end, not 20. Secondly, this is a sturdy, mobile, low maintenance unit supposed to be durable in a harsh every day professional wear and tear situation, year after year, possibly in far of locations. Thus priority #1 is durability and optimizing both durability and efficiency in a Stirling at a price affordable for regular people sofar has been impossible.

Also, the alternative target market of CHP domestic use will have need also for the heat output, and the combined efficiency is about 90%, which puts it on par with most other modern domestic heating solutions with the extra benefit of 1/3rd of the energy in the expensive high quality form electricity.

and first and foremost, they hid the price.


In the beginning they had prices on the webpage. I presume they later removed them to allow retailers more freedom of setting their own prices as I guess VAT, import taxes, profit margins, local warranty legislations, shipping costs, etc wary a lot across the globe so a price straight from the manufacturer might be more confusing than helpful.

this ECO-fucking-project as fake or worse - cheat. They also sent one troll and then the enemy troll and neither of them were good enough to be missed by my radars.


Well, my radar is good at picking up nonsense from lazy, stupid people that can only manage to hate on the net instead of gathering the information readily available, and you set of all those alarms.

Inresol AB is a stock company, and thus they have publicly available annual reports which gives a lot of info. But yeah, hating is sooo much cooler... *facepalm*

And everyone knows that stirling engine is good only for burning wood.

Considering you have made only 1 single post on this Stirling forum, I guess it's no surprise you are clueless. Stirlings runs on pretty much anything that burns.

So why the hell there are no stirling engines everywhere? Government regulation or some other reason?


It's difficult to design a low maintenance and sturdy Stirling at a price point suitable for regular people and home owners. For governmental, research and military purposes, Stirlings are quite common, but their budgets usually have a few more zeros at the end than average Joe's budget.
Last edited by stedevil on Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

stedevil
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:39 pm

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby stedevil » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:14 am

Nabe wrote: When I looked for info the projected cost of the Unit looked to be 5000 Euros on another over 7000 and here they are talking 30000, is this all a very elaborate hoax?


Where did you see a price of 30 000 Euros?? If memory serves me right, 5-7000 could eg be for stand alone engines and some other sub parts, the complete mobile unit I think would cost more around 10k, but this is from memory from a since long removed price table.

tentstovenerd wrote:In your western countries, you can burn coal, oil ,gas to generating electricity.


I think you completely missed the main point. Coal, oil and (natural)gas all add dormant carbon to the eco system increasing the greenhouse effect. Burning wood doesn't as it's part of the current eco system cycle.

tentstovenerd wrote:The other post of Swedish stirling, hot end is even 1000C.
It is heated by gas
efficiency is 20%.
In wood stove, the temp. must be under 300C.


Complete and utter nonsense.

For starters, wood doesn't even self ignite until about 400C and all modern/efficient (90%+) wood stoves use an insulated heat chamber with above 1000C to have a complete combustion that leaves a minimum of unburnt partially toxic particle residue (sot). This leaves only white/light grey ash in the stove and the chimney. Anything black that remains is proof of a very inefficient burn that both pollutes the environment and wastes a lot of energy.
Last edited by stedevil on Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

stedevil
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:39 pm

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby stedevil » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:15 am

Nabe wrote: I think Inresol started another thread in 2015 and are still in business, anybody else have an input here?


Yes, viewtopic.php?t=1995

I haven't been in contact with Inresol for well over a year and finding no news here I googled for their annual report. The latest available is for their fiscal year stretching from 20140701 - 20150630. A quick & loose translation of parts of the "Important events during the fiscal year"

The company received money from their stock owners to produce and establish a new product, tools for manufacture and a factory for producing the engine. The factory has offices, a testlab for quality control, and production facilities capable of producing 60000 units annually. Contracts with suppliers for a production of parts for up to 36000 units per year have been signed. Final preproduction tests were completed and production units have started to ship.
Some distribution and retail sale contracts have been signed and current backlog of export was >3000 units in 2nd quarter 2015.
Due to increased demand from export customers the company has focused on manufacturing of the engines and have moved production of sunpowered and container units to subcontractors.
Start of production was delayed mainly due to initial tooling issues for suppliers of some components, which lowered the expected production as well as the earnings for the company.
Patent forms for new inventions in the Stirling engine has been sent to the patent office.


Some relevant numbers from the report (previous year in parenthesis). 9 SEK roughly equal to 1 EUR or USD.

Revenue 3,2MSEK (0,9MSEK)
Stock of good and parts 1,3MSEK (0)

Employees 16 (7)
Salaries 3,4MSEK (1,5MSEK)
Salarytaxes 0,9MSEK (0,5MSEK)
Pension 0,2MSEK (0,1MSEK)

Profit -5,2MSEK (-3,0MSEK)

Total assets 32MSEK (6,7MSEK)

Books audited by REVIDECO



All in all, for those still thinking Inresol is a hoax, you at least have to admit that's it's a pretty elaborate hoax with 16 employees where salaries and even pensionfunds and employe taxes are payed...

The 2015-2016 fiscal year should be available online at the latest around February 2017. For those that want a report of the current situation earlier than that, contact Inresol. In any case, they have not gone out of business as of today http://www.allabolag.se/5567941389/INRESOL_AB

shadowjack
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby shadowjack » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:04 pm

So far:
pellet burner in operation - not shown
5kw electrical output - not shown
10kw invertor - not shown
10 atm self-pressurisation with dry Nitrogen - not shown
Self-start - not shown
What is shown: some renderings, prototypes running, a lot of sales pitch. I call vaporware.

danalinscott
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:25 am

Re: High powered Stirling going into production

Postby danalinscott » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:29 am

I attended a 3 day technical training session for Inresols gensets in Gavle. I have seen them run on wood pellets, taken them apart,etc. The factory was in the process of scaling up for larger production levels. Currently they appear to only be selling to a limited clientele who need them to prototype out equipment that incorporates their gensets in other equipment such as CHP systems. I have ordered and paid for two for our prototype units. I met others at the training that have already received their Inresol gensets. I will post more when our units arrive.


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