Problem Rider Ericsson model

Discussion on Stirling or "hot air" engines (all types)
Post Reply
Rik Lemmens
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Rik Lemmens » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:36 pm

Hello
I have a problem with my Rider Ericsson model 2"
He turns, or too fast or too slow making it stops.
It is 99.9% closed and runs without resistance.
The displacer is 100% closed, this I have checked.
The flame is stable and not much bigger than that of a cigarette lighter.
I can not find what the cause is.
Who can give me an answer, I do not know anymore.
Kind Regards
Rik

Ian S C
Posts: 2142
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Ian S C » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:21 am

Test 070 (640x480).jpg
Test 070 (640x480).jpg (236.89 KiB) Viewed 446 times
Hi Rik, did you build the Rider motor your self, and was it a kit of castings?
For a 2" motor I don't think you have a big enough flame, I think you will find it needs quite a bit bigger than a cigarette lighter.
My motor of similar size uses the burner from a camp stove.
Ian S C
Image

Trevor
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 am

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Trevor » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:38 am

Nice looking model Rik.
Ian is right with the heat required. When using a low flame, it will start to run reasonbaly well and then stop.
Definitely requires more heat.
I do see a gas torch lying on the left of the photo. Have you tried this on it flat out and do you have any water cooling for the displacer as well.
Trev

Rik Lemmens
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Rik Lemmens » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:49 am

Hello Lan and Trev
This is him, himself built of castings.
I understand that you are thinking of a bigger burner.
I can burn the burner harder, but then the engine will turn too fast, more than 200 rpm.
The charm of this engine is just running slowly.
You can also see on the show that these motors can run slowly.
It is somewhat adjustable by throttling the pressure pipe of the pump, but then the forces on the engine become extremely great, this is not good for the engine.
I can imagine: All engines with internal combustion have a governor, that you can arrange exactly rpm, most Stirling engines do not have that.
Maybe someone has a gold tip.
Rik
Attachments
IMG_1590.jpg
IMG_1590.jpg (103.43 KiB) Viewed 431 times

Ian S C
Posts: 2142
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Ian S C » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:01 am

Put the heat up, and take up the extra power with the water pump, these motors are designed to work with a load, also more interesting to any onlookers. I have one BETA motor with a pump, it draws the water from a container on the floor, about 3ft, it passes through the water jacket on the motor, then off to a container. Mostly my motors drive generators / alternators, or a mini size power hacksaw. This little GAMMA motor drives a generator (motor from a cassette tape recorder) giving a good 3V to run the transistor radio. The motor has a power stroke of 1/2", and a bore of 5/8", the displacer has a stroke of 3/4" and a bore of 5/8". I do have one motor in a boat, but it is a bit under powered, but then again it's quite a big boat.
Ian S C
Image
Attachments
Test 014 (640x480).jpg
Test 014 (640x480).jpg (236.04 KiB) Viewed 407 times

Rik Lemmens
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Rik Lemmens » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:17 pm

Strange, my Henrici 60mm reacts so accurately to the flame.
At the slightest adjustment he responds after a time, but always stable.
the flame is of course only very small
Rik

Rik Lemmens
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Rik Lemmens » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:38 pm

Tonight he has run for a few hours.
It then varies with a frequency of + - 10 min. between 200 and 30 rpm, thus, very unstable.
This does not please me.
Rik

Trevor
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 am

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Trevor » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:18 pm

Hi Rick
Do you have good lubrication on the piston as it can slow down considerably if running too dry, also, as Ian suggested - Do you have a good load on the engine as this will stabilize the engine to a constant speed.
Also you will need a constant heat source that is not based on the side etc but all over.
Trev

Rik Lemmens
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Rik Lemmens » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:41 pm

Hi Trev
I thought the lubrication was okay.
There is a breather valve on the engine, I tried, with the venting valve open, whether he turns heavier, I can not notice a difference.
I have the same problem if the engine has to deliver power.
with great luck I can let him run between 200 and 30 rpm, with an interval of + - 10 min, supply to power or no power supply, it does not matter

The flame is burning in the middle of the displacement box, can it make a difference that the flame is not on the side?
Rik
Attachments
IMG_1593.jpg
IMG_1593.jpg (70.93 KiB) Viewed 372 times

Ian S C
Posts: 2142
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Ian S C » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:26 am

The breather valve/snifter valve as far as I know is there to bring the pressure back to atmospheric as it tends to drop a bit over time. How good is the cooling system, motors with pumps often pass the pumped water through the water jacket, and if you pump from a fairly small container, and back into the container, the water heats up, my one with a pump, and using a 2L plastic container gets the water quite warm after half an hour running. Last time I measured it, it was pumping about one Litre per minute.
Ian S C

Trevor
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 am

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Trevor » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:24 pm

OK Rick - Everything you have done seems OK, however the snifter valve maybe the culprit.
I see you had it fully open - This will cause too much air to enter and/or exit from the displacer chamber. Not sure how the valve is to be set, but normally it is loose and only lets air in when below atmospheric pressure.

fcheslop
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 1:56 pm

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by fcheslop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:54 pm

On the original engines there is a regulating valve basically a controlled air leak
I ended up fitting one to my 2inch Ericsson engine.This engine is fired by a twin wick meths burner 6mm dia
A problem I had was the pumps piston valve intermittently passing and the engine revs would flutter up and down

Rik Lemmens
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Rik Lemmens » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:00 pm

Hello Fchelop
I believe we are coming in the direction, thank you for the tip.
If I understand correctly, it is just a controllable cover that regulates both in and out of the same, without a check valve.
I'm going to try.
Rik

Ian S C
Posts: 2142
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by Ian S C » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:40 am

I would have thought that the valve opened when the internal pressure dropped below the atmospheric air pressure, I could be wrong, but I'm just going by a friend's vintage Heinreci motor. You can seethe snifter valve on the left , just above the fire box, a small brass fitting below the water pipe.
Ian S C
Image
Attachments
DSC01089 (640x480).jpg
DSC01089 (640x480).jpg (206.02 KiB) Viewed 145 times

fcheslop
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 1:56 pm

Re: Problem Rider Ericsson model

Post by fcheslop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:16 pm

Yes its just a simple needle valve
I can see the advantages of the regulating valve but my 8inch engine just had a taper cock valve like the cylinder drain down and that why I just copied the idea.Was it an original valve Iv no idea but it worked well enough for my needs I made the needle valve as I couldnt be bothered to made the D bits for a one of valve
I think most of the models are controlled by the flame adjustment but I didnt go down that road for my simple meths burner

Post Reply