Joule-Thompson effect cooling

[vile_fly]

I read about the joule-thompson cooling effect used to liquify air and was wondering if anyone used this to cool a stirling engine's cold side. Here's a diagram of the process. http://www.ustudy.in/node/2031

It does not favor ideal gasses, but real gasses. So hydrogen and helium and argon are out, but the principle works well with mixed gases like air and is used to liquify air.
I was going to use a water mister like this to cool the v-twin stirling engine, but then this compressed air cooling method looked interesting. Not so sure it would remove as much heat as liquid cooling, but if I combine my idea with this one.....it might be promising. a) pump water into cooling heat exchanger, b) orifice sprays inside the enclosed water jacket on stirling engine, c) water/steam collected from jacket and returned to pump.

I got my water misting orifices here. Good prices, lots of selections.
http://www.mistcooling.com/nozzles1824.htm

By the way, I am ignoring net energy input vs energy output at this time. Be advised.

[Ian S C]

Don't know anything about the Joule - Thompson effect cooling system, could be a bit complicated.
With the mist system, do you spray the mist on the cold cylinder, assisted by a fan?
One method I saw an artical about(Model Engineer I think). The gas tank was placed in the water tank. The gas tank when operating flat out, froze, and the engine when running tended to boil the water, but by combining the two, over came both problems. Ian S C

[vile_fly]

Oh the propane tank arrangement would be easier, that is if you intend to use a compressed gaseous fuel. I will be using cheap fuel with a high BTU content like wood, oil, animal fat, parafin wax, etc. The oxidation mechanism for such will probably be catalytic in nature.
If it works best, the mister will mix water with air, then that mix flows around the cylinder fins, where convection + displacement flow will remove the heated mist. The idea is to promote phase change to increase the cooling effect.
What I am wondering is .... will I have an additional temperature drop if I take the misted air and pump it through an orifice? (two orifices, one for water, one for misted air)
Let's just say this is a stationary system with a planned recuperator, regenerator, catalyst, frying pan, etc.

[Ferraccio]

The Joule effect is simply the CONDENSATION and the EVAPORATION point of the cycle fluid inside the cycle.

In case of evaporation simply the fluid (water steam) assume the molar volume as gas in the that (in simple way (*), in the case of one gallon of water, is 22'700 gallons of steam, A huge change, is'nt it?

Is the principle of the STEAM ENGINE.
Was this that defined the utility of Stirling Engine in 1816! In fact the break of a steam boiler may be is an apocalyptic explosion for this.
The construction of boilers "safer" marked the decline of the Stirling engine
But this effect is also important in reverse way, when arrives at condensation point the volume pass from 22700 unit to one, this is vitually the vacuum. Theose are the twoo actions that carry energy in "steam cycle".
As relevant to that signalled by Vile Fly is evident that is "a bit complex system" ... to subtract heat in a Stirling Engine using another cycle more complex than those.
Is possible to consider the final performance and cost?... Perhaps not enough to make a well-designed refrigeration system, which would cost much less?

In the book of Andy Ross, signalled by Jimlarden Andy he was surprising that the study of a very sophisticated cooling not get absolutely improvements, and Came at last to find out (as we say in Italy) the "warm water" (yet done discovery), that the is obvious useless to be good to take off the heat if we are not able to put into it.

As very good exemple of good, recent, application of Rankine Joule (evaporation-condensation in closed cycle), see:
http://www.cyclonepower.com/works.html
, that is a simply a Rankine Joule closed cycle in a small alternative engine with very small quantity of fluid, (very quick evaporation and very quick condensation), time of start five seconds, Power from 5 kW to 300kW; use of ceramics, composite mtls, super-alloys; is simpler than a gasoline or diesel engine. The cycle fluid is in so small quantity that in fact the boiler do not exist, (evaporate and condense a spoon of water).

[Ferraccio]

(*) The 22700 (approx.) to 1 relation is about liquid related to the natural volume assumed by the vapor of said liquid at ambient temperature, being a gas (and when sty as gas) in condition of substantial rarefaction (no interference from co-volume), the volume is in a range of "volume proportional to the pressur"

[Ferraccio]

The book kindly signalled by Jimlarsen is
"Making Stirling Engines", by Andy Ross, by me cited

Download:
http://stirlingbuilder.com/

[vile_fly]

That was a very impressive link to that steam engine you mentioned. Cool engine design. However, I guess this is a "yes" that an additional orifice would work? or not?
It's the temperature drop I am interested in, so that I may understand physics a little better. The stirling engine has little to do with it. It's the concept of a gas and moisture mix achieving a temperature drop in a orifice system tested only for dry gasses. I might use this concept with a stirling engine heat pump to liquify air someday.
yes I know, water turns to ice, but it won't be run at that extreme if used to cool a stirling engine.

I am going to have to eyeball this new steam engine a bit more. You've put an idea in my head, ferraccio. Reminds me of OTEC engineering where they made ocean water boil at ambient temperature by dropping the pressure on that side of it to increase the temperature differential in the system.

[Ferraccio]

I do simple considerations on the principles of expansion, evaporation, and liquefaction, which I consider to be the ones that interest you.
Expansion: the expansion of a gas removes heat the gas itself and what comes in contact with the expanding gas, so the gas cools. The demonstration has typically using a spray can. If you insist on spraying the can becomes cold, and also the jet is cold. The cooling is proportional to the mass expansion and the gradient of pressure.
Evaporation: The evaporation removes heat for the state change (from liquid to gas) depends on the nature of the liquid evaporates, all liquid evaporates at a different temperature .. A typical example are the towers of thermal evaporation, where the price of a loss of liquid evaporated in the atmosphere, you have the heat dissipation from the bulk of the remaining liquid, the reception of vapor in air is proportional to the saturation of the vapor in the air..
Liquefaction: the melting of the ice lowers the temperature around it is known, however, the temperature is zero degrees Celsius (32 ° F), less known is that the addition of salt (Na Cl) drastically lowers the temperature of melting ice up to - 21.1 ° C, (exist a phase dyagram).

TheThe heat removed in the three processes is justified by the fact that the inverse processes (compression, condensation, solidification), the heat should be added.

My main objection to the use as an accessory of the Stirling engine is that, if the cycles, used as accessories to Stirling, are closed, their consumption, complexity and energy costs are much higher than that of the same Stirling cycle.

[vile_fly]

Thanks for the confirmation of what I had suspected, ferraccio. Most of my ideas are impractical, but usually don't betray the laws of physics. The laws of practicality, on the other hand, tend to put up quite a fight.