theropod2 wrote:Perhaps you can show me where I wanted you to be "my little bitch", or where I "ordered you around".
Lets start with this.
You continuously state that I should spend time to check up information relevant to YOU but NOT relevant to ME. You also continuously state how it is some kind of job I have to do. That is an arrogant spoiled brat point of view. The thing I have done here in this thread is to share the information I have gathered that pertains to my situation, in case it helps someone else, nothing more, nothing less.
So if you want to continue to make an ass out of yourself by demanding I do this or that for you and continue with childish "challenges", sure, go ahead. I'm just not playing. Anybody seriously interested in this technology will in any case be grown up and mature enough to contact the manufacturers them self to get info about their specific usage scenario. Email, web forms, phone numbers are readily available.
Why would I need 5Kw continuous charging power? Who does? Does your home draw a continuous 5Kw? I doubt it very much.
1) This started with YOU wondering why anybody would ever need a 300V battery WITH the known fact that the output of the Genious IS 5kW (it doesnt matter if YOU need it or not, the 5kW is there). By now I think it should be clear to all that you need somewhere around 20 huge buss(?) 12V batteries or 50-100 regular car batteries, minimum, to manage the job of one single 300V battery in regard to being able to receive the 5kW of continuous power output from the Genious. Considering 1 of these 300V batteries will cost about 5-600 Euro, and require nowhere near the cost in cabling for 12V, the best alternative for ON-grid use should be quite obvious. For OFF-grid use naturally the total amount of Joule stored can be a much larger concern, but that is for everyone them selves to do the mathematics of what fits their situation the best.
2) Me, being ON-grid, will have MUCH use of the 5kW electrical output. I simply will sell the surplus back to the grid, essentially making heating my own house during Swedish winter free. That normally is the by far largest yearly running cost for a house in this part of the world and thus will amount to huge yearly savings. As a pure bonus I get instant (in less than 20ms) local emergency power as well as guaranteed non fossil fuel energy consumption, lowering both my carbon footprint, as well as my neighbors that end up buying the surplus electricity I supply back to the grid.
Thanks for the link. :)
Do I read the table right if noticing that not even 0000 (107mm2) is anywhere near being able to deliver 417A continuous power at sub 100 C (212F)?
I'm critical of the idea that specialized batteries are required, and question the need for constant 5Kw output.
It doesn't matter if you question the need for 5kW, the fact still remains the 5kW is there. The question that arises is the costs involved of how to move that massive amount of power into a battery bank. A very cost effective way to do it is one single tailor made 300V battery costing 5-600euro. Another way is 20 of your 430ish Ah led-acid batteries and cabling for the 417A current. Could you perhaps provide a ball park figure of the cost of that setup? Essentially, the cost of your current system x 2.25.
(btw, please use proper units, K = Kelvin, w = ??, k = 1000 and W = J/s)
You're dismissing my years of direct experience based on vaporware and empty assertions.
Im not dismissing any of your real life knowledge of how much power you are using, but I am dismissing any potential claims that your current battery bank would have a snowballs chance in hell of managing to receive 5kW of continuous power. These two things are quite different things.
As for vaporware and empty assertions, the reason I called inresol and had a 1h17min talk with the CTO was to verify for my self if this was either. After that conversation I'm personally convinced it's the real deal and if/when the thing shows up at my doorstep I'll make sure to post a pic. Also, all data they present the CTO said they have proper documentation and certificates for, on each individual part. Hopefully that documentation will be available on the website they are supposed to have up any day now.
No I don't smelt my own copper, and I fail to see your point.
The point is that you are lamenting about the carbon footprint horrors of sending 1 300V battery from Sweden to the USA, in the same delivery as the sterling engine, but it doesn't seem to concern you one bit that the total amount of copper needed for a 12V setup alone probably weighs in at considerably more than the entire 300V battery. And Sweden being a large exporter of copper it might ironically be shipped to you from pretty much exactly the same place.
I would bet $1,000 US that my off grid system contains less copper, and other heavy metals overall, than this system
Bet certainly accepted. One of your 430-ish Ah batteries alone probably weighs more on it self than 1 of these 300V batteries. 8 of them plus the huge amounts of copper, that together still are nowhere close to handle the same load, are sure to weigh considerably more. Once I get a battery I'll be happy to weigh it and the few inches of internal cabling attached and PM my account number to you to transfer the money.
and I know for a fact my US made lead acid batteries cost less to ship to my house than these super batteries would, and produced far less greenhouse gases in said shipping than would these super batteries.
I don't now what shipping 20 huge 430ish Ah batteries will cost, but if/when the Genious is sold in the US I presume it will be by a local distributor, not shipped 1-by-1 to end users cross the Atlantic. So what you state as a fact is most probably nothing of the sort.
My batteries are completely recyclable and can be replaced in a day.
Well, if you try to use 8 of them to receive 5kW, 1 day is all they will last as well...
Explain how 3000 watts at 12 V DC is going produce a greater carbon footprint than 3000 watts at 300V DC. I'd really like to see how that works.
Extracting copper from earth as well as shipping it across the world is a very carbon footprint heavy business. Thus using 12V technology, requiring 20-30x more copper than 300V technology, is completely insane from a carbon footprint point of view.
What utter tripe, and completely anecdotal. Automotive alternators suffer regular failures, and these aren't limited to coil breakdowns. Rotors fail, brushes burn up, diodes fail, bearing let go and even cases can break. Around here we have these shops that specialize in automotive alternator repair. I wonder how they stay in business with these "never fail" units in operation.
Of the literally hundred of millions being used every day, for sure there will be many that fail. It's not the same thing as the technology being inherently immature and especially prone of breaking. And until we get to see the specsheet containing the stated median time to failure for the specific part, anything you or I say is anecdotal.
They are not claiming it will run forever, but they do claim 20k hours maintainance intervals. Its pretty darn high, but it doesn't break your logic of that everything eventually fails.
The CLAIM is the issue. You have already stated that it needs 5-10 years of testing for off grid application. How the hell can 20K hours be claimed without condition specific testing? Short answer, it can't and it hasn't. It's an empty assertion.
The claim is based on actual testing of a development version of the same engine that HAS run 12 years maintenance free. I have already pointed this out earlier. This however does not automatically guarantee that it will behave as good for as long in every other location on the world. Nor does it guarantee that every single machine will have 0 incidents for 12 years. So yes, for sure there needs to be large long time field test in many different external conditions, before such a claim can truly be stated "under all conditions", but the claim itself is also by far not just an empty assertion. For the "residential home in Sweden"-situation the claim is essentially already verified.
Yep, and if the grid is available it's cheaper, and more efficient, to use it to charge the batteries in such a car.
I have no idea about what the electric power costs in the USA, but here in Sweden it is by European standards low (~20c/kWh including all taxes and transfer fees etc), but that is still 6x more expensive per kWh than firewood. At anything better than 15-20% percentile output as electricity I can thus, by selling the electricity to the grid, actually earn money AND heat my house for free in the winter. Or, I can charge a future electric car for free, while I in any case heat my house and/or hot water, using 100% non fossil fuel.
The average cost of electricity here is about 9.1 cents US per kilowatt hour. So my previous statement is true. It would cost more to run this system to charge a car, or anything else, than available power via the grid.
Charge that car for free? Even firewood has a cost if you cut it yourself.
Firewood, cut down and chopped into fireplace bit size and transported to your home run at about 2-3c/kWh here. If you have your own forest (common in Sweden) the price is even lower. So for Swedish conditions your statement certainly does not hold true. So what makes economical sense depends a lot on your local situation.
When the system does eventually fail who shows up to make the repairs? I note you failed to address this critical matter.
I will know where/whom to turn to here in Sweden. Obviously I neither have a clue nor care about how you will do this in the US as I know nothing about customer care practices, warranties, US law in the area, nor how or if these units will be sold in the US or not. At this point in time I'm not even sure Inresol has a detailed plan for the US either.
That absorption cooling you're talking about is not for the timid as anhydrous ammonia is the working fluid in most such systems. A leak in a residential setting could kill everyone inside.
These kinds of technology for obvious reasons are not very relevant for Sweden, but a quick google shows very many different types of methods. I suggest for domestic home usage one should probably not use a system that is likely to kill your entire family but instead chose one of the less volatile systems. But again, that is for each and everyone to decide for them selves after comparing all the facts.
Look, I'm highly skeptical about everything and anything. If there isn't empirical data to support a position I dismiss it out of hand. There is no such data and I do summarily dismiss it.
Well, the paperwork is supposed to be there. I have yet to see it for my self, but I also have yet to pay for the equipment. So at 0c current investment I'm fine with waiting a bit longer for the documentation. At the point I open my wallet however I'm sure to have sen it, as without the proper paperwork I would not even be allowed to connect it to the grid and sell the surplus energy.